Another question I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the use of gauntlets. I have a huge Swedish houdegen (around 1400 grams, circa 1630), with a very large basket hilt. I believe it is made to be used with steel gauntlets, then it handles beautifully. The steel gauntlet would make the same effect at the pivotal point, balancing the blade without adding more inertia to that of a large globular pommel... when handled from the wrist. If moved from the elbow or shoulder, instead of 1400 gramms, you impact with above 2 Kg.
I thought in the past on the impact gauntlets have on swords. I did so more from the perspective of HEMA. Honesty, I don't know how to see this one in simple terms. If it does matter a lot, would the weight of my bare hand impact the balance as well then? It would, right? But the entire configuration becomes so much more complicated. The sword is now part of the force chain... transferring those via the hand matters... ramps up the complexity.
But yes, I tend to believe that 1600s broadsword and rapiers, some, not all, were made around the idea that they would be used in gauntlets. So even if they didn't spend the time to balance things, surely they put some gauntlets on to test the feel in the hand for fit and comfort, and maybe adjusted the balance a bit then as well.
I believe the problem is actually more complex and I think a reason for the popularity of taza hilts in the second half of XVIIth century. With an Italian hold (one finger across the cross) or Spanish hold (two fingers across the cross), the cross is the real pivoting place of a sword, even if the balance is some inches forward. Masses forward and backward could balance each other, but they will give you inertia.
The question is, what happens with the mass at the pivotal place, the cross. That mass counts toward the balance of the blade, but it does not produce inertia as a pommel does. In a taza hilt you have there the thickest part of the ricasso, the quillions and the reinforced taza border.
Many taza hilts have stumped short grips, huge quillions and no proper pommel, and this is not by chance.
Yes, that's why I talked about what it means to have the mass around the ricasso area, why I added the caveat that you don't only rotate around the PoB as this depends on how you use the sword, and why I mentioned that things are more complicated when it comes to mass distribution.
Overall, this just helps put some numbers and visualise in a simple way tendencies we know to a good degree. Btw, you can do the same and just select rotation at a fixed point of your choosing instead of PoB, if you want to see what's going on in that case.
Number of fingers over the crossguard and what you mentioned matters less, and I'll tell you way: you can always shift mass, move things, and re-balance the rapier to have the same feel regardless. The two fingers matter more in the wrist structure of the gripping.
Another question I have not seen mentioned anywhere is the use of gauntlets. I have a huge Swedish houdegen (around 1400 grams, circa 1630), with a very large basket hilt. I believe it is made to be used with steel gauntlets, then it handles beautifully. The steel gauntlet would make the same effect at the pivotal point, balancing the blade without adding more inertia to that of a large globular pommel... when handled from the wrist. If moved from the elbow or shoulder, instead of 1400 gramms, you impact with above 2 Kg.
I thought in the past on the impact gauntlets have on swords. I did so more from the perspective of HEMA. Honesty, I don't know how to see this one in simple terms. If it does matter a lot, would the weight of my bare hand impact the balance as well then? It would, right? But the entire configuration becomes so much more complicated. The sword is now part of the force chain... transferring those via the hand matters... ramps up the complexity.
But yes, I tend to believe that 1600s broadsword and rapiers, some, not all, were made around the idea that they would be used in gauntlets. So even if they didn't spend the time to balance things, surely they put some gauntlets on to test the feel in the hand for fit and comfort, and maybe adjusted the balance a bit then as well.
P.S. Swedish houdegen... nice!
I believe the problem is actually more complex and I think a reason for the popularity of taza hilts in the second half of XVIIth century. With an Italian hold (one finger across the cross) or Spanish hold (two fingers across the cross), the cross is the real pivoting place of a sword, even if the balance is some inches forward. Masses forward and backward could balance each other, but they will give you inertia.
The question is, what happens with the mass at the pivotal place, the cross. That mass counts toward the balance of the blade, but it does not produce inertia as a pommel does. In a taza hilt you have there the thickest part of the ricasso, the quillions and the reinforced taza border.
Many taza hilts have stumped short grips, huge quillions and no proper pommel, and this is not by chance.
Yes, that's why I talked about what it means to have the mass around the ricasso area, why I added the caveat that you don't only rotate around the PoB as this depends on how you use the sword, and why I mentioned that things are more complicated when it comes to mass distribution.
Overall, this just helps put some numbers and visualise in a simple way tendencies we know to a good degree. Btw, you can do the same and just select rotation at a fixed point of your choosing instead of PoB, if you want to see what's going on in that case.
Number of fingers over the crossguard and what you mentioned matters less, and I'll tell you way: you can always shift mass, move things, and re-balance the rapier to have the same feel regardless. The two fingers matter more in the wrist structure of the gripping.